Thank you for this, Julian. I think most of us deal with some level of shame and guilt in our lifetime, and it may be evolutionarily hardwired, as Mullet says in his response below, for a reason. For it is moving through shame and guilt, and coming to terms with our own aching humanity, that we can arrive at a place of grace. Grace is a hard-earned reward for soul searching and internalizing a better belief system that reminds of the divine within and without. We are indeed forged by fire.
I would tend to agree with that. God intends for us to be free of all that would get in the way of a more loving relationship with God. There is a cost, as Bonhoeffer says, to true discipleship, and moving through pain, guilt, shame, suffering, is part of the cost. On another note, while guilt and shame do not overwhelm me anymore, it is there in some of the deeper recesses of my being. This, I think, is important, as it is the one of the bases of compassion and empathy.
Shame is evolutionarily hardwired and socially reinforced through gossip, mockery and moralizing behavior.
Moralizing punishers seek out Free Riders within a society; e.g., individuals who don’t contribute their fair share and attempt to parasitize a community of its resources through their action or inaction.
Free riding could simply be shirking, or at the other end of the behavior range, could involve something like stealing.
Individuals who attempt to dominate other individuals and co-opt their labor and resources unfairly, can also be seen as free riders.
Ultimately, the dynamic between moralizing punishers and free riders determines whether a given community is a cooperative or a competitive community.
So, within this context, shame can be a positive force that maintains cooperation within a community.
I agree with everything you said, with one caveat: following the definitions I laid out in my post (and I'll cop that theologians and social scientists often have different terms for things), I think what you're describing is what I would call guilt.
Guilt: "I did (or am doing) something bad."
Shame: "I am a bad (flawed, defective, etc) person."
I think free riders of the types you describe *should* feel guilty, and this guilt can also be imposed on them from outside of themselves (i.e. by moralizing punishers). The guilt should motivate them to make changes in how they behave. AND, once they've made those necessary changes and become the kind of person who doesn't free ride, they should let go of their guilt so it doesn't keep eating away at them.
Yes, I agree with your distinction between shame and guilt. However, we may be coming out this from different perspectives.
Moralizing punishers wouldn’t have evolved if free riders were trying to be better people.
Again, Free riding can take many forms; not paying your taxes, not voting, littering or throwing cigarette butts on the ground.
Even I 100% improved my behavior and got rid of all of my shame, moralizing punishers would still exist because the rules constantly change and they would find new behaviors to punish me for.
Thank you for this, Julian. I think most of us deal with some level of shame and guilt in our lifetime, and it may be evolutionarily hardwired, as Mullet says in his response below, for a reason. For it is moving through shame and guilt, and coming to terms with our own aching humanity, that we can arrive at a place of grace. Grace is a hard-earned reward for soul searching and internalizing a better belief system that reminds of the divine within and without. We are indeed forged by fire.
<3
I agree with this. AND, I think a key part of grace is letting go of our guilt and shame; because God doesn't want us to live stuck in those mindsets.
What do you think?
I would tend to agree with that. God intends for us to be free of all that would get in the way of a more loving relationship with God. There is a cost, as Bonhoeffer says, to true discipleship, and moving through pain, guilt, shame, suffering, is part of the cost. On another note, while guilt and shame do not overwhelm me anymore, it is there in some of the deeper recesses of my being. This, I think, is important, as it is the one of the bases of compassion and empathy.
Shame is evolutionarily hardwired and socially reinforced through gossip, mockery and moralizing behavior.
Moralizing punishers seek out Free Riders within a society; e.g., individuals who don’t contribute their fair share and attempt to parasitize a community of its resources through their action or inaction.
Free riding could simply be shirking, or at the other end of the behavior range, could involve something like stealing.
Individuals who attempt to dominate other individuals and co-opt their labor and resources unfairly, can also be seen as free riders.
Ultimately, the dynamic between moralizing punishers and free riders determines whether a given community is a cooperative or a competitive community.
So, within this context, shame can be a positive force that maintains cooperation within a community.
Thanks for commenting!
I agree with everything you said, with one caveat: following the definitions I laid out in my post (and I'll cop that theologians and social scientists often have different terms for things), I think what you're describing is what I would call guilt.
Guilt: "I did (or am doing) something bad."
Shame: "I am a bad (flawed, defective, etc) person."
I think free riders of the types you describe *should* feel guilty, and this guilt can also be imposed on them from outside of themselves (i.e. by moralizing punishers). The guilt should motivate them to make changes in how they behave. AND, once they've made those necessary changes and become the kind of person who doesn't free ride, they should let go of their guilt so it doesn't keep eating away at them.
What do you think?
Yes, I agree with your distinction between shame and guilt. However, we may be coming out this from different perspectives.
Moralizing punishers wouldn’t have evolved if free riders were trying to be better people.
Again, Free riding can take many forms; not paying your taxes, not voting, littering or throwing cigarette butts on the ground.
Even I 100% improved my behavior and got rid of all of my shame, moralizing punishers would still exist because the rules constantly change and they would find new behaviors to punish me for.